Porsche 40IDA 3C Weber

Porsche 40IDA 3C Weber Carb parts that would be considered normal for a rebuild Kit

diagram number	Quantity per carb	Description 40 IDA	Weber no. 40 IDA 3C vintage	material	finish	Weber no. 40 IDA 3C 2006	graphics	notes from vintage pieces	ref
75	2	gasket, needle valve	41530.005	fiber	red	41530.005		10 x 15 x 1
6	2	gasket, plug	41530.035	fiber		41530.035		22 x 26 x 0.85
8	2	gasket, fuel inlet	41530.004	fiber		41530.004		12 x 23 x 1
11	1	gasket, cover	41710.001	paper		41710.001		0.7 thickness
13	2	gasket, fuel inlet	41530.001	fiber		41530.001		12 x 18.5 x 1
17	2	gasket, copper flat ring	41530.017	copper		41530.017		6.10 x 9.0 x 0.86
26	1	diaphragm, plain, pump	47405.011	flex mat	red	47405.011
29	1	diaphragm, metal, pump	47407.010	flex mat	red	47407.010
37	3	washer, needle oring seal	55510.018	brass	nat	55510.018		5.5 x 9.0 x 0.50
43	3	Oring	41565.002	rubber	black	41565.002		AS568A# - 008
59	3	gasket, main jet retainer	41540.001	copper	nat	41540.001		8.0 x 11.0 x 0.55
63	2	gasket, bowl drain plug	41530.008	fiber		41530.008		7.0 x 10.6 x 0.85
69	3	gasket, pump jet	41530.012	fiber	red	41540.014		5.75 x 9.0 x 0.80

items not adressed by Weber spec sheet
	3	gasket, air horn to top		paper				45 bore x 65 bolt pattern x 1mm thk x 6mm holes
	1	gasket, top to air cleaner plate		paper				stand pipe carb
alt	1	gasket, top to air cleaner plate		paper				screen carb
	6	gasket, base		paper				40 bore x 76 bolt pattern x 1mm thick x 9mm holes

other items usually included in a basic Rebuild "kit"
5	2	needle valves, pin valves	64240.009*	brass/steel		79508.*	175	marked - EW 175

Porsche	cyl	size	Weber	choke	sec	main	idle	air	emul	air	jet	bleed	needle	notes
904GTS	4	1956	46 IDA 2/3	40	4.50	1.70	0.60F10	-	F14	1.30	0.50	0	3.00
911L	6	1991	40 IDA 3C/1	30	4.50	1.25	0.55	1.10	F26	1.80	0.50	0	1.75
911USA	6	1991	40 IDAP 3C/1	30	4.50	1.25	0.52	1.10	F26	1.80	0.50	0	1.75
911S	6	1991	40 IDS 3C/1	32	4.50	1.30	0.55	1.10	F3	1.80	0.50	0	1.75
911T	6	1991	40 IDT 3C/1	27	4.50	1.10	0.50	1.10	F2	1.85	0.50	0	1.75
911T	6	1991	40 IDTP 3C/1	27	4.50	1.10	0.45	1.45	F1	1.85	0.50	0	1.75
Carrera 6	6	1991	46 IDA 3C/1	42	4.50	1.70	0.70	0.80	F24	1.45	0.50	.40	1.75
914/6	6	1991	40 IDTP 13C/1	27	4.50	1.05	0.50	1.45	F1	1.70	0.50	0	1.75

References -
SUPERTEC PERFORMANCE - http://www.supertecperformance.com/...phtml?&cat1=103 -type in Weber at the search
Eurometrix - Eurometrix
Bieker Engineering - http://www.biekerengineering.com/
PMO - PMO
The Oil Analysis Company - PMO parts - http://www.youroil.net/weber_carb_parts.html
Pelican Parts - www.pelicanparts.com
Weber Carbs.com - http://www.racetep.com/weber.html
Royze Weber kit - http://www.royze.com/Kitporsche.htm
Pierce Manifolds - http://www.piercemanifolds.com/products.htm
Redline Weber - http://www.redlineweber.com/Redline1.htm
MotorMeister - http://www.motormeister.com/suz/carb_access/carburetors.htm
Ernie Wilberg - http://www.pbase.com/911r/weber_service_manual&page=1

Illustrated Parts exploded view and parts list 40 IDA 3C - http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs/40IDA_46IDA.pdf

need period IPB's for 40 IDS 3C and 40 IDT 3C?

cleaning info needed -
carb cleaner - what brand?
bead blasting? plastic media? walnut shells? corn cobs? soda?
acid dip? caustic dip? Gunk? NAPA?

cast body refinishing info needed -
what is the material of the die cast pieces making the major carb 2 pieces?
what is the OEM metal treatment from Weber on these 2 pieces?
how is this finish achieved today?

vent modification info needed.
stand pipe vent versus screen cover vent?

additional 40 IDA parts review -

idle circuit details, tech info

diagram number	Quantity per carb	Description 40 IDA	Weber no. 40 IDA 3C vintage	material	finish	Weber no. 40 IDA 3C 2006	graphics click big	notes from vintage pieces dimensions usually metric, mm	ref
37	3	washer, needle oring seal	55510.018	brass	nat	55510.018		5.5 x 9.0 x 0.50	replaced with cup style?
43	3	Oring	41565.002	rubber	black	41565.002	table	AS568A# - 008 = 4.47id x 1.78thick
53A	3	spring, idle mix screw	47600.060	steel	yZ	47600.060		L=14mm, wire=1.0mm, coils=5.75
62	3	needle, screw idle mix	64750.004	steel	yZ	64750.004		see graphics

65	3	jet, idle		brass	nat	74403.
66	3	jet holder		brass	nat	52570.005

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=3db5170a5df0ef88327eac81b331dcf5&threadid=310740
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=3db5170a5df0ef88327eac81b331dcf5&threadid=309929
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=3db5170a5df0ef88327eac81b331dcf5&threadid=307227

My experience so far in cleaning a 40 IDA 3C Weber -
i pulled the carbs off the engine and it of course was apparent that the Webers were filthy with years of use. The idle jet holder screws were all buggered up from too small a screwdriver being used, the hex fittings all had their edges slightly beat up, but after careful examination , it appears these Webers have never been rebuilt. The diaphrams in the accel pumps were still EWeber marked brand. I had owned them since 1978 and they were 68 vintage. Anyway, my intent with the Webers was to clean them, replace worn parts, and try to restore them to exact correct original finishes. No hurry, no schedule, no money to splurg on sending them to some shop for a rebuild.

I looked around the internet for advice at forums, someones personal site on Weber experiences, shops with parts, tech advice.....actually anything to give me ideas on how to approach this Weber restoration issue. One my key issues was to either (1) not lose the original finish on the cast pieces during cleaning or (2) be prepared with the correct procedure for putting it back on. It's a concern that will not affect the cars performance, a detail that will totally go over the heads of all my buddys who "giter done", but a matter of pride of ownership with me on this particular Weber carburation issue.

My trip thru the internet forums leads me to believe that the OEM finish on the Weber cast pieces is doomed. I see discussions of bead blasting, media (i guess plastic) blasting, walnut shell blasting, sand blasting, Napa carb cleaner, Gunk carb cleaner, acid dipping, caustic dipping, hot tanked at machine shop, ultrasonic cleaning, .....maybe others. Enough drama , i will get to the point!

I stripped the Webers down to only having the main throttle shafts, butterflys, end springs and linkage. Only two major cast pieces to clean ...top cover and float bowl. i purchased a can of carb cleaner spray, got an old toothbrush, laid out newspaper on the driveway and went to work. I knew i could not use ANY METAL tools or even scratchy 3m type pads or the original finish would be destroyed. I worked about 15 minutes on each piece ( i was only working one carb), and things got cleaner and cleaner. At the end i was pretty happy, but i could see a dark patina in the deep crevices that would not come out. I set the pieces aside. They did not look like new, but just pretty good.

This Weber cleaning process of all the pieces at this point had taken a about week - i had also been testing cleaners on the brass, yellow zinc chromate, black oxide, black zinc chromate, clear zinc plated pieces off the Weber as well. I had flow tested all the passages of the float bowl section using mild solvents. I found that Gunk carb cleaner in the one gallon pail with the basket included was not as aggressive as the NAPA carb cleaner i had used in past years, BUT it does remove the yellow zinc chromate coating very quickly on any steel pieces and only does a half baked job on brass. More on the small weber pieces later .

Back to the two main weber cast pieces - i was unhappy with some gasket material that was stuck to the bottom of the one Weber 3C i was working with . Scratching with a brass brush, trying to scrap with a razor blade was gouging the finish. I purchased a spray can of Permatex gasket remover, set up newspapers in the driveway, and gingerly sprayed some on the bottom flange of the Weber. It kinda sprayed a gooky mess on the surface, but it instantly disolved any residual gasket and dirt of the bottom. i didnt know what to clean the Permatex gasket remover off with , but i grabbed some carb cleaner and a short spray and the mess was gone! The Permatex gasket remover had done the job i was expecting the carb cleaner to do AND THE OEM CAST finish was not harmed! I could not believe how clean the gasket remover got the carb. I set the carb body on its side, sprayed down all the nooks and crannies of the Weber on one side, used a cheap tinning brush to help slosh the gasket remover around...........this takes about 15-30 seconds to accomplish.....then i sprayed the mess away with cheap carb cleaner. THIS was the CLEANING i was desiring and the original Weber finish was not affected - perfect! I only used soft toothbrush and soft tinning brush, neither seemed to lose bristles. Took half a can of Permatex gasket remover to do one Weber 3C, half can of cheap carb spray. Also the Permatex gasket remover cleans the yellow zinc chromate pieces and does not destroy their gold finish!

I thought i would pass this on to the forum. Maybe it will help another Weber fanatic in the future

Please note - these chemicals will take paint off everything in a 30 foot area when you are spraying them around! Also bad to breath! Use rubber chemical gloves!
Also i thoroughly cleaned the Weber with carb cleaner before i started Gasket remover spray, probably used up a full can of carb cleaner doing this.

40 IDT Weber are the emissions version of 40 IDA Weber. They differ in the position and size of the progression holes.
40 IDS Weber have the added high-speed fuel enrichment nozzles (booster jets).

Porsche Webers - PDF file from 1973 BAP/GEON catalog #9M/773, 38 pages - click on image

See below. I had to post in two replies due to the length. Hope it helps.
John
Weber Set-up
Part I
STEP 1- Accelerator Pump Volume
Measure the accelerator pump volume at each of the 6 nozzles. Before starting the car, turn the key “on” and energize the fuel pump. Let the pump run a minute or so to fill up the float bowls. The air cleaners are off. Now, lower the vial down the throat of barrel No. 1 and park it directly under the nozzle. Have the assistant in the car depress the gas pedal all the way, nice and easy. Withdraw the vial, record the results on a piece of paper, and dump the contents of the vial. Repeat at each nozzle. (You may have to remove the velocity stacks for cylinders 2, 3 and 6 to gain proper access to the nozzles for those barrels.) Adjust the nut on the accelerator pump rod as necessary. Turning the adjuster nut out will increase the amount injected, and vica versa. You want .6 to .8cc (ml) (.75cc works great). Get them all even.

This procedure can also be done on the bench. Just fill the float bowl that has the brass valve in the bottom that feeds fuel to the accelerator pump. Then activate the pump and measure. The advantage of measuring at this stage, as opposed to when the carburetors are attached to the intake manifolds, is that if there is a blockage, it is easy to get at the check valves, nozzles, pumps, and float bowl valves and clean them out.

This procedure also provides a good opportunity to check that the throttle plates are opening all the way (vertical) with the gas pedal floored. If they are not, turn the plastic adjuster under the gas pedal in to give more travel, or out (less travel) if the throttle plates rotate beyond the vertical position.

STEP 2- Float Level Adjustment
Remove one of the two float bowl plugs on one of the carbs. There are two plugs per carb since there are two float bowls and two floats per carb. Careful- all the fuel in the float bowl will dump out so catch it with a little jar. Now insert the tool and tighten it to prevent leaking, since any leaking at the washer will give false readings. You need to focus on the upper two lines scribed on the vial portion of the tool. The lower two lines are for the Zenith carbs that some 911T's used (70-71). Have the assistant turn on the key to energize the pump but don't try to start the car. Now the float bowl will fill and you'll see gas fill the vial. After the vial is through filling, carefully examine where the meniscus is. You want it right between the top two lines. Turn off the key. Remove the needle valve plug, back out the needle valve and seat and add or subtract washers as necessary to raise or lower the fuel level, respectively. (ADD SHIMS= INCREASE FUEL LEVEL; REMOVE SHIMS= DECREASE FUEL LEVEL). Replace the needle valve and seat and the plug and have the assistant turn on the key. Note the fuel level. Continue to adjust until the meniscus is spot-on. The washers that come with the tool differ in thickness. After you do one, you will develop a sense for how many washers you need to raise/lower the fuel level. Then remove the other float bowl plug on the same carb and repeat the process. Keep at it until you've got them all perfect.

A couple of things- some books say to measure the fuel level with the car running. I've tried it that way and believe me, it's pretty hard to do since the engine is vibrating when it’s running. This vibration makes the fuel is slosh around in the vial and thus it becomes difficult to determine if the level is correct. This is exacerbated by the fact that the two lines scribed on the vial are near the very top of the vial. Second point-- the washers under the float bowl plugs are crush washers that are good for one shot. After you replace the plugs, if you re-use the washers, they are likely to leak. If you have some extra ones, use them. If you don't, don't overtighten the little bastards. Just snug them and move on. You can always order more from PMO and then go back and replace them at your convenience.

STEP 3- Initial Start-up Adjustments
Make the initial adjustments to the screws as per PMO and fire it up.

Initial adjustments (PMO) are as follows:
Idle air correction: 1/8 turn out*
idle screws: ½ turn in after touching throttle arm on each carb
idle mixture screws: 2 turns out

(*I suggest turning all the idle air correction screws in (gently!) until they hit their seats, and lock them down for the initial start up. You want a nice rich mixture for starters to avoid excessive popping which is really distracting, and then work from there.)

Here is where it gets tricky- while your assistant in the car keeps the motor running by judicious applications of throttle so that the engine warms, you have to diagnose in a grossly rough way, what is going on and what you need to do to smooth out the idle so that you can get the car running tolerably well enough to begin the real work of balance, synchronization, mixture adjustment and idle speed adjustment.

If the engine idles (regardless of speed) with the initial settings, do the following: if any barrel is spitting, slowly open the mixture screw- like 1/8 of a turn at a time. This should reduce the incidence of popping/spitting. Once the popping is reduced, quickly measure vacuum on each barrel with your STE. Are the barrels of each carb pulling roughly the same vacuum? If not, and vacuum is all over the place, determine which carb is pulling, on average, more vacuum than the other. Then open up the idle stop screw on the carb that pulls less vacuum, or turn in the idle stop screw on the carb that pulls more vacuum, or both, so as to get both sides roughly equal. Keep engine speed close to idle speed (900 rpm).

If the engine won’t idle, have the assistant hold it at a faster speed and adjust the mixture screws to avoid excessive popping. Once the engine runs smoothly, release the gas pedal and see if it idles. Check vacuum and make any adjustments to the idle stop screws that are necessary to get the car to run at idle. Once the car is warm (140 degrees or better) and holding an idle, it is ready for accurately setting balance, sync, mix and idle speed.

END PART I
John
1972 911T Coupe
PCA- Potomac Region

Weber Set-up
Part II
STEP 4- Vacuum Adjustment- (balance)
Disconnect the right and left carbs from the crossbar by undoing the short press rods on each carb. Use an 8-mm wrench to pop the ball cups free of the throttle arms. You don't want the linkage affecting this adjustment. Pick a carb. At 900 rpm, measure vacuum at each barrel and record results. Determine which barrel pulls the most vacuum (“reference barrel”). Lock down the jam nut on that barrel’s idle air correction screw. Now, carefully and slowly turn out the idle air correction screw on one of the two barrels that doesn't pull as much vacuum as the reference barrel. Get the vacuum exactly equal to the reference barrel. As you open the idle air screw to equalize vacuum, you are going to experience popping, since you are leaning out the mixture by introducing more air into that barrel's idle mixture. DON"T PANIC! Just open the mixture screw up a hair to compensate so that the popping doesn't distract you, or if it's just occasional popping, you can leave it alone for the moment. When vacuum is equal to the reference barrel, lock down the jam nut. Equalize vacuum in the remaining barrel the same way.

Now, you have all three barrels on the one carb pulling equal vacuum. Repeat the process for the other carb.

Step 5- Side-to-Side Balance @ Idle (synchronization)
Using the STE synchrometer, determine which side is pulling more vacuum. Turn the idle stop screws out or in a hair until both sides are pulling equal vacuum and you have 900 rpm idle. Turn the idle stop screws in to speed or out to slow, keeping each side balanced with the other. Now, the engine should be running at 900 rpm with each barrel pulling exactly equal vacuum. You are probably getting an occasional pop since your mixtures are all off.

Step 6- Side-to-Side Balance @ 3000 RPM (synchronization)
Reattach the press rods. Check the side-to-side balance at idle to make sure that the linkage isn't off at idle. If the press rods disturb the idle balance, adjust them so that they exert no preload on the carb throttles. Now you are ready for balance at 3000 rpm. Have the assistant hold the engine at 3000 rpm. Quickly run the STE over each barrel and record the results. Each barrel of each carb will match. But, your linkage could be off, causing the right carb to be out of sync with the left—that is, one carb may be pulling more vacuum than the other at 3000 rpm. If one carb is pulling more vacuum than the other @ 3000 rpm, lengthen or shorten the right/left press rods to compensate. When you get vacuum to balance at 3000 rpm, check that the linkage adjustment hasn’t screwed up idle balance. When vacuum balances at idle and at 3000 rpm, you are synchronized and ready for the "artful" part of this process, where it helps to have the ear of a musician.

Step 7- Mixture Adjustment
Speed the car to 1200 rpm using the hand throttle in the car to hold it there. (This is the BA method- put rock on gas pedal. PMO advises to disconnect the right press rod and speed the engine with the idle stop screws. I use the BA method.) Now start with barrel 1. Slowly turn the mixture screw in until you hear slight popping in the muffler- a little more and the idle speed drops. You may get an occasional BIG POP while doing this- this is normal. As soon as the idle speed drops, slowly turn out the screw until idle speed comes back up- this should take about 1/8 of a turn. You may hear that faint popping in the muffler at this point. If you do, turn the screw out a bit more until the popping disappears and the engine runs smoothly. (NOTE: Slow turns on the screw are warranted. Reaction to changes in the screw’s position is not immediate.) Now, note the position of the screw and slowly give it 1/2 a turn more. This is the initial setting. If it continues to pop or spit up before moving on to the next barrel, turn out the mixture screw an additional 1/8 turn. All should be well with that barrel for the moment. Proceed to barrel 2- same process- then 3, 4, 5 and 6. If it took ½ plus 1/8 of a turn to get barrel 1 to behave, then turn out the mixture adjustment screws for all of the other barrels the exact same amount.

After you run through them once, you will have some doubts as to whether you got the mixture on the first few barrels equal, since as you move through this process, you will begin to develop the "ear" and the "feel." Start over with barrel 1. Make sure that each screw is turned out the same amount from that point where the idle speed returns without faint exhaust popping after it has dropped as a result of turning it in. The point here is to get them all equal. Run through them as many times as it takes to smooth out all popping and spit ups and to get satisfied that you have them all open the same.

Step 8- Idle Speed Adjustment
Release the hand throttle and let the engine return to idle speed. If idle speed is off, disconnect the right and left press rods. Adjust the idle speed to 900 rpm with the idle stop screws. Make sure that side-to-side vacuum remains equal. The engine should be running smooth- no popping and holding a nice idle. Reconnect the press rods and check balance at idle and at 3000 rpm again just to be sure!

Step 9- Test Drive
Take the car for a test ride. Is there any surging between 2000 and 3000 rpm? Is it popping on deceleration? Is it transitioning seamlessly between idle and main circuits? That is, no flat spots, right?

Return to home base. Make any final adjustments that you feel are necessary to the mixture screws. In other words, if it popped occasionally or surged, turn all mixture screws out an extra 1/8. Repeat test ride. Make any further adjustments that are necessary.

If the mixture screws are turned out more than 3 ½ turns from full in, the idle jets are too small. If the engine stumbles on acceleration or is slow to return to idle, the idle jets are too small.

End Part II
__________________
John
1972 911T Coupe
PCA- Potomac Region

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